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	<title>Comments for ENLARGING THE CIRCLE: Creating Partnerships in Research and Performance</title>
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	<description>The official blog of the American Orchestras Summit</description>
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		<title>Comment on University orchestras: a call for action by Call for action by University orchestras by Ken Selden &#171; All the conducting masterclasses</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/ken-selden/university-orchestras-a-call-for-action/comment-page-1/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>Call for action by University orchestras by Ken Selden &#171; All the conducting masterclasses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=227#comment-95</guid>
		<description>[...] Call for action by University orchestras by Ken&#160;Selden Several professional orchestras represented at the Summit (including Reno, Pittsburgh, Memphis and L... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Call for action by University orchestras by Ken&nbsp;Selden Several professional orchestras represented at the Summit (including Reno, Pittsburgh, Memphis and L&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Portfolio Career by Sara Wallace</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/nate-zeisler/the-portfolio-career/comment-page-1/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=204#comment-94</guid>
		<description>One avenue for a sort of portfolio career that I have heard about includes specializing in a musical field outside of performance in addition to the performance aspect of one&#039;s career. This could include learning all you can about music history or music theory, or maybe even both. I think that many successful musicians that I have observed as a graduate student have taken this route, especially in higher education. One might work to receive a dual degree in performance and history so that they are prepared to teach both lessons on their instrument/s and teach music appreciation coursework. One might also be required teach or tutor theory coursework as part of their job description. Having a multifaceted background is important because it can be a good selling point to potential employers. When there is less money available for the arts, employers may tend to look for people who are willing and able to do more than one job and hire less people overall instead of having many more specialized employees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One avenue for a sort of portfolio career that I have heard about includes specializing in a musical field outside of performance in addition to the performance aspect of one&#8217;s career. This could include learning all you can about music history or music theory, or maybe even both. I think that many successful musicians that I have observed as a graduate student have taken this route, especially in higher education. One might work to receive a dual degree in performance and history so that they are prepared to teach both lessons on their instrument/s and teach music appreciation coursework. One might also be required teach or tutor theory coursework as part of their job description. Having a multifaceted background is important because it can be a good selling point to potential employers. When there is less money available for the arts, employers may tend to look for people who are willing and able to do more than one job and hire less people overall instead of having many more specialized employees.</p>
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		<title>Comment on University orchestras: a call for action by Ken Selden</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/ken-selden/university-orchestras-a-call-for-action/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Selden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 05:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=227#comment-93</guid>
		<description>Puffer,

Thanks for your comment.

There are still many details to be worked out, but I’m envisioning a careful introduction of these elements within the rehearsal and performance schedule, so as not to place unnecessary burden on the students’ time. I believe there is a way to do this so that the actual amount of time required by the students would be minimally affected. (The real burden is on the orchestra director, who will be responsible for researching, organizing and implementing these programs.) 

I’m actually not advocating anything as radical as a change in curriculum, but I would like to encourage the introduction of these important activities in small amounts, and within the context of the current university orchestra framework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Puffer,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment.</p>
<p>There are still many details to be worked out, but I’m envisioning a careful introduction of these elements within the rehearsal and performance schedule, so as not to place unnecessary burden on the students’ time. I believe there is a way to do this so that the actual amount of time required by the students would be minimally affected. (The real burden is on the orchestra director, who will be responsible for researching, organizing and implementing these programs.) </p>
<p>I’m actually not advocating anything as radical as a change in curriculum, but I would like to encourage the introduction of these important activities in small amounts, and within the context of the current university orchestra framework.</p>
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		<title>Comment on University orchestras: a call for action by JcK</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/ken-selden/university-orchestras-a-call-for-action/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>JcK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 05:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=227#comment-92</guid>
		<description>I also agree that there needs to be more interaction between the academia and professional orchestras in the community.  

I think many academic institutions unfortunately fail to educate  performer majors the necessary tools to develop better understanding in business and marketing skills to promote themselves.

For young professional musicians, such skills as writing grant proposals to even putting together a resume can be very valuable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also agree that there needs to be more interaction between the academia and professional orchestras in the community.  </p>
<p>I think many academic institutions unfortunately fail to educate  performer majors the necessary tools to develop better understanding in business and marketing skills to promote themselves.</p>
<p>For young professional musicians, such skills as writing grant proposals to even putting together a resume can be very valuable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on University orchestras: a call for action by Puffer Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/ken-selden/university-orchestras-a-call-for-action/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Puffer Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=227#comment-91</guid>
		<description>I agree wholeheartedly with your call to action for university and college music programs. There needs to be a thorough curriculum view that results in courses of study that prepare students to be thoughtful musicians and at the same time gives them the tools they need to engage with audiences.

But - and this was brought up briefly at the summit - change must also happen within the audition process for professional orchestras. Until the audition process (which hopefully could become an audition/interview process) values more than just the playing of excerpts behind a screen, students will see so much of that revised curriculum as getting in the way of their time in the practice room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wholeheartedly with your call to action for university and college music programs. There needs to be a thorough curriculum view that results in courses of study that prepare students to be thoughtful musicians and at the same time gives them the tools they need to engage with audiences.</p>
<p>But &#8211; and this was brought up briefly at the summit &#8211; change must also happen within the audition process for professional orchestras. Until the audition process (which hopefully could become an audition/interview process) values more than just the playing of excerpts behind a screen, students will see so much of that revised curriculum as getting in the way of their time in the practice room.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Moving Forward by Mark and Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/nathan-platte/moving-forward/comment-page-1/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark and Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=224#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Well said, Nate-- given the right framework, the future is indeed bright.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Nate&#8211; given the right framework, the future is indeed bright.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Henry Fogel on survival by Retired Musician</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/ken-selden/henry-fogel-on-community-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Retired Musician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 05:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=196#comment-89</guid>
		<description>Although I certainly believe some of the comments have been (justifiably) directed squarely at Mr. Fogel, the bigger picture here is a very, very long standing problem in the business of managers telling musicians, boards, patrons, etc. they want one thing but then doing something else. More to the point, saying they want inclusion only as a ruse for running through their own agenda. I performed in four different orchestras for nearly 40 years and it happened in each and every one of them (some, more than once). So the problem as I see it is one where this sort of behavior isn&#039;t addressed enough and those taking advantage of positive sentiments should be made an example of, otherwise, we&#039;re all going to suffer from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I certainly believe some of the comments have been (justifiably) directed squarely at Mr. Fogel, the bigger picture here is a very, very long standing problem in the business of managers telling musicians, boards, patrons, etc. they want one thing but then doing something else. More to the point, saying they want inclusion only as a ruse for running through their own agenda. I performed in four different orchestras for nearly 40 years and it happened in each and every one of them (some, more than once). So the problem as I see it is one where this sort of behavior isn&#8217;t addressed enough and those taking advantage of positive sentiments should be made an example of, otherwise, we&#8217;re all going to suffer from it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Henry Fogel on survival by Stephanie Elder</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/ken-selden/henry-fogel-on-community-engagement/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie Elder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 03:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=196#comment-88</guid>
		<description>I honestly am disappointed in the fact that so many of the responses to this blog post have completely ignored the purpose of the post and its message. This, at least in my opinion, and the Summit, are not places to get together and attack Henry Fogel. Sure, he made some mistakes and the NH festival is certainly at the top of the list, but really, this is not the place to continue to rehash the situation again and again. Fogel has made many important and positive contributions to the orchestral community and I personally find it said that a multi-decade career of service to the industry is completely disregarded in light of recent events.

Like Teresa, I am not sold on the negative &quot;outreach&quot; concept but in general I agree with many of the things he has to say. Ironically, considering it was the musicians who so often at the Summit brought up the need to be positive, you all are not doing a great job of that. The idea that his quotes should be included without the name-because you agree with the statements but just dont like that it was him who said it-is ridiculous. 

By all means ignore my opinion if you want, I am simply a musician and student who wants to see orchestras better able to engage with their audiences and communities and for all sides or the issues to try better to understand the other positions. But it is frustrating for me to read many of the posts above because I think it is absolutely crucial for everyone to set their prejudices aside and work together because i think all sides have a very similar goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I honestly am disappointed in the fact that so many of the responses to this blog post have completely ignored the purpose of the post and its message. This, at least in my opinion, and the Summit, are not places to get together and attack Henry Fogel. Sure, he made some mistakes and the NH festival is certainly at the top of the list, but really, this is not the place to continue to rehash the situation again and again. Fogel has made many important and positive contributions to the orchestral community and I personally find it said that a multi-decade career of service to the industry is completely disregarded in light of recent events.</p>
<p>Like Teresa, I am not sold on the negative &#8220;outreach&#8221; concept but in general I agree with many of the things he has to say. Ironically, considering it was the musicians who so often at the Summit brought up the need to be positive, you all are not doing a great job of that. The idea that his quotes should be included without the name-because you agree with the statements but just dont like that it was him who said it-is ridiculous. </p>
<p>By all means ignore my opinion if you want, I am simply a musician and student who wants to see orchestras better able to engage with their audiences and communities and for all sides or the issues to try better to understand the other positions. But it is frustrating for me to read many of the posts above because I think it is absolutely crucial for everyone to set their prejudices aside and work together because i think all sides have a very similar goal.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Orchestra as a Verb by Leslie Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/kelly-dylla/the-orchestra-as-a-verb/comment-page-1/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=104#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Hey - two ideas occurred to me from reading your post. 1) I always love hearing about teamwork and the how their are different forms of teamwork/leadership as a team. Orchestras are often cited, like baseball, as being a unique form of teamwork. It is fun to think about. 2) I just participated in a webinar on arts participation, and yes, like you highlight in your final paragraph - arts audiences are really stagnant. It seems that &#039;to orchestra&#039; most certainly necessitates the involvement of audiences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey &#8211; two ideas occurred to me from reading your post. 1) I always love hearing about teamwork and the how their are different forms of teamwork/leadership as a team. Orchestras are often cited, like baseball, as being a unique form of teamwork. It is fun to think about. 2) I just participated in a webinar on arts participation, and yes, like you highlight in your final paragraph &#8211; arts audiences are really stagnant. It seems that &#8216;to orchestra&#8217; most certainly necessitates the involvement of audiences.</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Relevance, and Means vs. Ends by Melinda Morang</title>
		<link>http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/sara-billmann/on-relevance-and-means-vs-ends/comment-page-1/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda Morang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.insidethearts.com/OrchestraSummit/?p=209#comment-85</guid>
		<description>Apologies for submitting this comment again, but I feel like it&#039;s more relevant here than where I originally put it . . .

During the Organizational Structures and Strategies panel, the comments and questions kept dancing around the edge of something that was never explicitly stated. The concert experience isn’t all it should be. If we want people to keep going to orchestra concerts, we need to make the concert experience more pleasant and meaningful.

One of the panelists mentioned Met broadcasts in movie theaters and how much more relaxing it was to watch opera while sitting in a comfortable chair eating popcorn. Could this type of performance take over the world and replace local and regional live performances? I certainly hope not, because I think there should be something magic and special about the “live” aspect of it. However, the mere fact that we are expressing concern about this issue indicates that we’re not sure if that magic is really strong enough.

What happens when you go to a concert?  As an amateur musician and music lover without any professional connections, I think I can testify to this better than many of you who attended this concert.  When you go to a concert, you put on your uncomfortable dress clothes, and you show up to a crowded auditorium. You can’t really stand around without feeling somewhat awkward, especially if you happen to have come alone. Glowering ushers whisk you away to your seat, and you try to settle in comfortably, but there is nowhere to put your stuff and not enough legroom. Then you get crawled over by other people trying to get to their seats as well. The concert starts, and you patiently try to ignore the other thousand people in the auditorium with you while attempting to see over their heads. Heaven forbid that you should cough or sneeze or clap in the wrong place. When it’s over, the musicians disappear off stage, and you get whisked out of the auditorium and back to your regular life.

Certainly comfort levels in auditoriums could use some improvement, but I think there is something much bigger that is wrong with the concert experience. Watching something on a screen should not be the same as watching living, breathing people perform on stage. However, when you go to a professional concert, the audience is so disconnected from the musicians that it really IS almost like watching something on a screen. As an audience member, I don’t feel like the musicians are really aware of me. The musicians produce, and I consume. But I don’t want to merely consume. I want to participate. If I only wanted to consume, I could do it very well from the movie theater.

One panelist mentioned that Broadway shows don’t have trouble attracting audiences . . . at Broadway shows, you’re invited to respond. You can laugh and clap throughout, and it’s not impolite. Similarly, last year when I saw Yoyo Ma and the Silk Road Ensemble play here in Ann Arbor at Hill Auditorium, he talked to the audience throughout, and the audience was really engaged with clapping and laughing throughout. The feedback between performers and audience was refreshing and fun, and it was much less intimidating.

There is something immensely unsatisfying about the standard concert experience. If we orchestra lovers want to keep our audiences strong and maintain our local/regional/national orchestras, we need to do something to make the “live” aspect of performances more special and meaningful to the audience. One panelist said something about deciding which concert traditions deserved to stay and which could be changed, and he was right on.

Melinda Morang
U of M Student
Dexter Community Orchestra
Music Lover</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies for submitting this comment again, but I feel like it&#8217;s more relevant here than where I originally put it . . .</p>
<p>During the Organizational Structures and Strategies panel, the comments and questions kept dancing around the edge of something that was never explicitly stated. The concert experience isn’t all it should be. If we want people to keep going to orchestra concerts, we need to make the concert experience more pleasant and meaningful.</p>
<p>One of the panelists mentioned Met broadcasts in movie theaters and how much more relaxing it was to watch opera while sitting in a comfortable chair eating popcorn. Could this type of performance take over the world and replace local and regional live performances? I certainly hope not, because I think there should be something magic and special about the “live” aspect of it. However, the mere fact that we are expressing concern about this issue indicates that we’re not sure if that magic is really strong enough.</p>
<p>What happens when you go to a concert?  As an amateur musician and music lover without any professional connections, I think I can testify to this better than many of you who attended this concert.  When you go to a concert, you put on your uncomfortable dress clothes, and you show up to a crowded auditorium. You can’t really stand around without feeling somewhat awkward, especially if you happen to have come alone. Glowering ushers whisk you away to your seat, and you try to settle in comfortably, but there is nowhere to put your stuff and not enough legroom. Then you get crawled over by other people trying to get to their seats as well. The concert starts, and you patiently try to ignore the other thousand people in the auditorium with you while attempting to see over their heads. Heaven forbid that you should cough or sneeze or clap in the wrong place. When it’s over, the musicians disappear off stage, and you get whisked out of the auditorium and back to your regular life.</p>
<p>Certainly comfort levels in auditoriums could use some improvement, but I think there is something much bigger that is wrong with the concert experience. Watching something on a screen should not be the same as watching living, breathing people perform on stage. However, when you go to a professional concert, the audience is so disconnected from the musicians that it really IS almost like watching something on a screen. As an audience member, I don’t feel like the musicians are really aware of me. The musicians produce, and I consume. But I don’t want to merely consume. I want to participate. If I only wanted to consume, I could do it very well from the movie theater.</p>
<p>One panelist mentioned that Broadway shows don’t have trouble attracting audiences . . . at Broadway shows, you’re invited to respond. You can laugh and clap throughout, and it’s not impolite. Similarly, last year when I saw Yoyo Ma and the Silk Road Ensemble play here in Ann Arbor at Hill Auditorium, he talked to the audience throughout, and the audience was really engaged with clapping and laughing throughout. The feedback between performers and audience was refreshing and fun, and it was much less intimidating.</p>
<p>There is something immensely unsatisfying about the standard concert experience. If we orchestra lovers want to keep our audiences strong and maintain our local/regional/national orchestras, we need to do something to make the “live” aspect of performances more special and meaningful to the audience. One panelist said something about deciding which concert traditions deserved to stay and which could be changed, and he was right on.</p>
<p>Melinda Morang<br />
U of M Student<br />
Dexter Community Orchestra<br />
Music Lover</p>
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